Kommersant: "He is still in the driving seat"
French journalists "crack" Vladimir Putin
During his visit to France last week Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was treated as the country's leader. In fact, as our special correspondent Andrei Kolesnikov attests, Vladimir Putin himself said in France that the Russian leader will be the leader of the ruling party.
The programme offered by the French suggested more than a programme for the Prime Minister of a country which has a president. As soon as the Russian Prime Minister set foot on French soil he was provoked into playing a role that he had not played for a whole month. He was welcomed with greater honours even than those accorded to him when he was actually president. He never had so many meetings and talks in a record short time (the visit lasted less than 24 hours).
He quickly caught on to the game that his interlocutors and journalists offered him. When author Maurice Druon confessed that he was fond of Vladimir Putin, the Russian Prime Minister thought it was his duty to reply: "Everyone is fond of me."
Vladimir Putin met Russians living in France, the French President, and gave an interview to the French newspaper Le Monde, whose correspondent, it seems, has still not availed himself of what Vladimir Putin thought a very sensible piece of advice to go and be circumcised by highly skilled Russian experts.
At a certain point Vladimir Putin "cracked". It happened during his astonishingly frank interview to the newspaper Le Monde.
In retrospect it is hard to say what accounted for such frankness. Perhaps it was the fact that he had been groomed for his appearance before French journalists by Zhanna Agalakova, Channel One correspondent in Paris, and he felt unusually relaxed (who wouldn't?).
However, most probably what put Vladimir Putin in a candid mood was the presidential level of his reception in Paris and then the questions of three French journalists, two men and one woman (a typical French combination), who appeared to have done very good homework before meeting the Russian premier.
It must have taken them a long time to prepare, judging from the fact that they had even learned Russian. Although simultaneous interpretation was provided, their prompt and even premature reactions suggested that they had no need for translation.
The very first question put Vladimir Putin on his toes.
"Your dinner with Nicholas Sarkozy," they said, "is unusual in terms of protocol. Does it underscore a certain ambiguity as to who runs Russian foreign policy, you or Dmitry Medvedev?"
In this way the French journalists challenged the holiest of the Russian President's duties, his holy duty and honour to engage in foreign policy. All the more so since there seems to be precious little else for the president to do as the Russian premier is taking care of all the rest.
"Yes," said Vladimir Putin, "we discussed international affairs with Mr Sarkozy. Yours truly deals mainly with economic and social issues, but as a member of the Russian Security Council, of course, I have something to do with the issues that we have discussed with the French President."
Thus Vladimir Putin formulated the reason that gave him the right to discuss foreign policy and speak about it publicly. Some people thought that this would force him to introduce some kind of administrative and political reform little short of changing the Constitution. They were mistaken. After the next question the French journalists had no doubt that the list of the premier's powers was not limited to those he had mentioned. He was asked:
"The current power system in Russia is a dual structure. Is it a temporary solution or do you want the Russian premier in future to be something like the German chancellor?"
Vladimir Putin, who of course does not expect to be prime minister forever, replied that "Russia is a presidential republic".
"We do not intend to change the key role of the state in the country's political system," Vladimir Putin added. But the fact that I head up the Government is of course a curious fact in our political history. Still, there is a more important thing. What is more important is that I have simultaneously become the head of the party which holds the leading position in the country's political life and has a solid majority in parliament... this is the main political signal."
In my opinion, these were the words that provided the main political sensation of the week. Vladimir Putin, ignoring the efforts of political scientists who would have taken a lot more time and energy to get this idea across to Russian society and the world (and it is by no means certain that they would have succeeded), casually staked out a very simple position: the party leader in Russia is the leader of Russia.
But Vladimir Putin did not stop there.
"When the transfer of power took place you and Medvedev talked about Russia's plans for 10-20 years ahead. Could anything happen that would prompt you to quit your post in one, two or three years?" he was asked by an elderly French journalist who, of all people, knows that making plans 10-20 years ahead is sheer madness.
And again, Vladimir Putin dropped a bombshell: "If everything works out, if our actions are successful, it is not all that important how power in the top echelons is organised. The important thing is that we achieve our common goals... We will try to preserve that unity as long as possible. As for the distribution of roles and personal ambitions, it is a secondary, not a primary matter."
That lent a fresh relevance to the joke that has been going the rounds recently. The year is 2028. Putin rings up Medvedev and says: "Dima, I am a little bit confused: is the next term mine or yours?"
Asked about the problems of foreign companies in Russia (a reference to the conflict between TNK-BP's British and Russian shareholders) Vladimir Putin exhibited an uncanny grasp of the topic. It was clear that he had been watching TNK-BP for many years.
"Nothing has yet happened to TNK-BP," he explained to the French journalists. "They have problems with their Russian partners. I had warned them several years ago that such problems would arise. It is not that it is TNK-BP. The point is that several years ago they set up a joint venture on a 50/50 basis. When they were doing it I was present when the documents were signed and I told them: don't do it, agree that one of you will hold the controlling stake. And we do not mind if it is BP. We will support it if it is also a Russian part of your joint venture. But there must be one master. They told me: ‘No, no. We will come to terms.' I said: ‘Well, go ahead and agree.' And here is the result: they have constant frictions as to who is the boss".
Several days ago Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin visiting an automobile plant in Yelabuga, in reply to my question said that the Government must not interfere in the conflict between TNK-BP shareholders. And now Vladimir Putin not only confirms what Igor Sechin said, but reveals that this was precisely his position several years ago.
The journalists were very careful in couching their questions, apparently being loath to do any harm to those they were asking questions about.
This was one of the questions.
"If President Medvedev asked your opinion about easing Mikhail Khodorkovsky's conditions in prison or reducing his sentence, what would you reply?"
The question was asked by a French woman, which is not accidental: apparently they thought that if a question about mercy was asked by a woman, there was more chance of a positive answer. Besides, the question was studiously correct: they realised that any irritating details would get Putin's back up. It looks as if they had planned the operation carefully.
"I would say that he should make the decision independently," said Vladimir Putin, making it look, momentarily, that he was giving a carte blanche, and then it would be easier to come to terms with Dmitry Medvedev.
But Vladimir Putin continued:
"In any case, when I was president and today, we must be guided by Russian laws. Medvedev, like myself, graduated from the same university. We had good teachers who had administered a strong vaccine to us that makes us respect the law. I have known Medvedev for many years and he will respect the law... Everything will depend on how the procedures under the law will go."
The stratagem devised by the French journalists was about to collapse.
"The conditions in which the prisoner is kept depend on the administration," one of them said.
He should not have said it if he really wanted to help Mikhail Khodorkovsky. Vladimir Putin immediately sensed that he was being pushed.
"Yes, of course, just like in your country," he snapped. "Who else can they depend on? On the inmates?"
"What I mean is that the law allows conditions to be improved," the Frenchman tried to hold his ground.
"Yes, of course, but first the persons held in custody must comply with the law," the Prime Minister said.
The French by that time had realised that they should not pursue the topic further and were already asking questions on other topics, but Vladimir Putin had only started, as it turned out.
"Your colleague has mentioned one of the ‘captains' of Russian business (Vladimir Putin has problems with uttering Khodorkovsky's name - A. K.) At one time these people were even denied entry into the US because they were thought to have links with the mafia. If this is not double standards what is? As for Khodorkovsky, it is not that he travelled abroad but that they had broken the law grossly and repeatedly. They are guilty of murder. Several murders."
And Vladimir Putin suddenly came down with a vengeance in defence of Oleg Deripaska, who is also denied entry to the US:
"He is not a friend or a relative, he represents big Russian business. He has multi-billion dollar businesses in many countries. Why do you restrict his movements around the world? What has he done?"
Vladimir Putin was growing increasingly vexed and he did not hide the fact. Speaking about the state of the justice system he said:
"For all the problems that exist there, the justice system is developing and is proving to be viable."
"The trouble is that Mr Medvedev has spoken about legal nihilism," the journalists kept pressing him. "Where is the truth?"
"The truth is that you didn't hear him right," the Prime Minister replied. "He spoke about legal nihilism in public consciousness, not in the law courts."
When asked about the Iranian nuclear programme, the Prime Minister again put on his presidential hat. He said what he deemed necessary. The French themselves had long felt they were dealing with anyone but a "technical premier" who might quit in one or three years.
"And the last consideration," said Vladimir Putin when asked about the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO. "We are talking about democracy. What is democracy? It is the power of the people, and all the opinion polls in Ukraine show that almost 80% of the population do not want to see Ukraine in NATO. And our partners say that Ukraine will be in NATO. What is one to make of it: has the decision already been made on behalf of the Ukrainians and their opinion does not interest anyone? And you are telling me that this is democracy?"
It must be said for fairness' sake that Vladimir Putin is not the only one to have made tough statements about Ukraine recently. Dmitry Medvedev was equally as tough. At the end of the week the Russian President had a telephone conversation with Viktor Yushchenko, and Kommersant learnt from Ukrainian colleagues that it was a very spirited conversation. When the Ukrainian President's decree on the removal of the Black Sea Fleet from Sevastopol in 2017 was mentioned, the Russian President said something like this: "If you believe it is possible to act in such a unilateral way, then, when you run up debts to us for gas are we supposed to cut off gas supplies at once?" He also said that such issues should be solved by referendum.
Upon hearing Vladimir Putin himself use the word "referendum", the French journalist, the most venerable of the three, finally had his break. He put his best foot forward:
"In 1981 France abolished the death penalty whereas the majority of the population wanted to keep it. Sometimes you have to take difficult decisions against the opinion of the people. That is political responsibility."
Vladimir Putin thought a while and replied:
"Political responsibility can easily be exercised through a referendum: go and ask the people whether they want it or not. That does not apply to humanitarian matters such as the death penalty."
In effect, Vladimir Putin was unable to trump the argument. Moreover, his entire record as Russian President militated against a satisfactory answer to the question: there was not a single referendum in Russia in the last eight years: each time Vladimir Putin assumed the responsibility.
As the conversation was drawing to a close Vladimir Putin said what he apparently had to say sooner or later. He was asked whether or not he could convince the French President that Iran had no nuclear programme.
"I did not set myself such a task during this meeting," Vladimir Putin admitted and went on to make a far more significant admission.
"I assure you that the French President is no less informed than the Russian President..." He paused, conscious that the slip of the tongue which indicated that he saw himself for what people took him to be, would long be remembered and hastened to make amends: "Especially if he is a former Russian President."
One wonders, though, who he had in mind when he referred to a former Russian President.
By Andrei Kolesnikov
