VLADIMIR PUTIN
ARCHIVE OF THE OFFICIAL SITE
OF THE 2008-2012 PRIME MINISTER
OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
VLADIMIR PUTIN
ARCHIVE OF THE OFFICIAL SITE
OF THE 2008-2012 PRIME MINISTER
OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
VLADIMIR PUTIN
Local residents met Vladimir Putin at the school entrance. The prime minister joked that he came to the Trans-Urals region for the warm weather after temperatures in Moscow dipped below 30 degrees Celsius. It is only minus 15 degrees Celsius in Kurgan.
In the school, Vladimir Putin was shown a shop classroom for girls and a multimedia classroom equipped with computers under the programme to modernise education in the regions. The prime minister sat in on a literature class on Leo Tolstoy.
"We are talking today about the need for everyone to be responsible for what is happening around," the teacher said. "This is not an easy subject," Vladimir Putin admitted. "We are also tackling difficult tasks, just as you are," the teacher said. "You are tackling the most difficult task," the prime minister responded.
In addition to providing education, Kurgan's Secondary School No. 7 acts as a cultural and entertainment centre for local children. About 900 pupils are currently enrolled in the school. It also has a council representing not only teachers but pupils and parents.
After having been shown around the school, Vladimir Putin met with members of its council.
Transcript:
Vladimir Putin: Good afternoon.
Remarks: Good afternoon.
Vladimir Putin: We have decided to visit an ordinary school. We are going to hold a meeting on the development of education in Kurgan today. But before meeting with my colleagues and high-ranking officials, I decided to visit a rank-and-file school in Kurgan, all the more so since your school council is doing a good job, and such councils are designed to improve school performance. I understand your council represents, as it should, pupils as well as their parents and teachers. We believe that such councils will facilitate the teaching process and help schools develop the educational system, particularly now that we have been trying to upgrade it, improve material-and-technical support of schools and increase teachers' salaries. Their salaries were not raised to match the average in the regional economy last year – the governor said they had run out of time and money. But I understand these salaries went up in January, is that right?
Remark: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: And now these salaries are no longer below the average. They are even a bit higher – by several kopecks but still.
Our next step – we have just discussed this with your director on our way here, and you have probably heard this already – will be not only to pay the necessary attention to school education, to its further development, but also to continuing education. And I'd like to emphasise this – salaries matching the average in the economy must be paid to teachers with high professional skills. They should meet the requirements set for school teachers. I'm referring to education at art, music and sport schools that require high qualifications. Obviously, it would be wrong to even out salaries regardless of skill.
I’m referring to the ratio between the salaries of school teachers and teachers at higher educational institutions. In some regions salaries of the latter are even lower than those of the former. So our task for the next few years (I hope you will agree that we must encourage professional development) is to bring the salaries of university professors and teachers to double the average in the economy. I think you will agree with me because this is fair. We must build a streamlined, clear-cut and fair system of continuing, school and university education.
I’d like to hear how your council is operating so that before we discuss the development of school education with our colleagues from the administration I will know how it is functioning in real life. Perhaps the director would like to start. Please, go ahead.
Lyubov Silantyeva (school director): Let people collect their thoughts a bit. As you have rightly noted, our school council represents different participants of the educational and upbringing process. These are teachers, children and their parents. The main issues we have to resolve together concern purchases of school equipment and repairs. Our experience is not limited to the distribution of budget funds. Parents of our pupils are very helpful and they understand the need to simply… There were times in the past when the school could not have survived without help from parents. Of course, it is great to see them interested but I think that eventually their help will be reduced to the absolute minimum.
For the time being, it is the administration or the director that initiate the council’s meetings. But I think it is really good that when we announce such meetings all those who are able take part in them. I’m especially pleased to note that we have kids from different grades. Earlier we met with Mr Remorenko (state secretary and deputy minister of education and science of the Russian Federation), and he noted that…
Having looked at the list of council members, they said: “It’s so interesting that you have sixth-graders on the council but what can they decide?” I replied: “Mr Remorenko, sixth-graders are future seventh-, eighth-, and ninth-graders.” This is why I was so pleased that sixth-grader Marina was the most active participant in the discussion with the deputy minister. By and large, parents are aware of school problems and are trying to prompt and help us. We have discussed repairs with Mr Borgul, for instance. Mr Borgul, would you like to join our discussion? We have spoken about the roof with you.
Sergei Borgul (father of 11th-grader): The school’s worst problem has existed for more than a decade. My daughter went to the first grade and is now finishing school but this problem remains. They are patching holes.
Vladimir Putin: So, the roof still has a hole, does it?
Sergei Borgul: Yes, the roof is still full of holes.
Vladimir Putin: There are more holes now.
Sergei Borgul: We must help the school, of course. We must do the repairs well and without delay. It is long overdue.
Vladimir Putin: Let’s do this. After all, I have come to this school. We have certain reserves and we can organise repairs without help from parents. We must simply choose the time. Repairs should be done in spring.
Lyubov Silantyeva: We agree. The only problem is… We have already discussed it with Mr Borgul… Do you remember our notorious tenders and quotations in which we try to save a rouble for the budget and lose thousands as a result, because we try to find a contractor that will charge at least a rouble less? Maybe it makes sense to resolve these issues in a different way? Of course, I don’t know but at the government level…
Vladimir Putin: Mr Fursenko, and do they have to conduct a tender under Law No. 83?
Andrei Fursenko: They must make purchases under Law No. 94 until they become an autonomous institution.
Vladimir Putin: But if they become one, they won’t have to conduct a tender, will they?
Andrei Fursenko: If they become an autonomous institution, they won’t have to.
Remark: We are not an autonomous institution.
Vladimir Putin: I see. I have a question – what do you think about these autonomous institutions? Do you support the adoption of this law or do you have apprehensions regarding it?
Lyubov Silantyeva: In general, Mr Putin, we have already become a budget institution under this law but the transition is occurring in stages. We don’t yet have our own school accountant. This service is performed by a centralised accounting office. But the problem is that the reform of the structure of institutions, types of educational institutions… It probably takes an overhaul in the minds of accountants to make a difference. Excuse me for saying so but we are still fighting with the accountants. They work by tradition (they are used to being a centralised office) and sometimes they would use one article instead of another and that’s it.
And they continue to do so. We directors have no background in economics, so we’re trying to study budget estimates on our own and keep track of cash flows. They might get sloppy and change something for an item that would change the direction of the cash flow. Speaking about career advancement, we have been trained and duly certified as managers. We now have diplomas of education managers. However, looking ahead it becomes clear that school directors absolutely need economic training. Mr Fursenko, I believe that we have about 83,000 roubles allocated for career advancement training under preliminary budget estimates that we sent to you.
Vladimir Putin: I believe that things should be perfectly clear in the first place. Everyone, including parents, should realise that transitioning to an autonomous status does not mean transitioning to tuition-based education. This is absolutely not the case!
Lyubov Silantyeva: I know.
Vladimir Putin: Tuition-based educational institutions will remain as they are, be they state-run or autonomous. Nothing will change and financing by the state will remain unchanged. The only difference is that schools will have more rights. You said that the centralised accounting office may make certain changes …
Lyubov Silantyeva: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: Well, under new arrangements directors will change things as they see fit. They might save on utilities or repairs and… well, they shouldn’t be saving on that. Anyway, any other savings can be used to pay for other things, including raising teachers’ salaries. Many schools that have switched to these arrangements are doing exactly that: for example, they raised teachers’ salaries by 20% in the neighbouring Tyumen Region.
Lyubov Silantyeva: Yes, I know about Tyumen.
Vladimir Putin: This is an entirely viable option for making institutions more independent.
Lyubov Silantyeva: Well, yes, I believe that this may be the first step: we’ll try to work first on the budget level and then …
Vladimir Putin: That’s my point.
Lyubov Silantyeva: You were absolutely right when you said that directors should understand that being autonomous does not mean being cut off from state financing and everything else that comes with the state.
Vladimir Putin: Financing will be maintained in full.
Lyubov Silantyeva: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: There will be no difference.
Lyubov Silantyeva: The point is that even directors didn’t understand how things would work at first. It took us some time to study and understand it. It was a problem until we realised that federal sources, and all other sources of school financing were not going to disappear.
Vladimir Putin: Above all, we should operate based on the principle that education should benefit students. This is an educational service for children, and there’s only one aspect that may be a cause of concern for teachers. If the number of students is declining, the amount of funding will contract accordingly. However, this should encourage schools to improve the quality of education. This is what this law is about as well.
Lyubov Silantyeva: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: How long has your school been around, 26 years?
Lyubov Silantieva: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: You need to carry out a number of priority measures designed to improve the condition of fixed assets, along with everything else having to do with education. I understand that you now have interactive boards…
Remark: Yes, in the information science classes.
Vladimir Putin: Yes, but only that…
Remark: We went to see class 50, the elementary school class.
Remark: They installed an interactive board there, and our young students are using it already.
Vladimir Putin: The teacher told us that they have fun using it. It’s like a game for them.
Remark: They also love going to the multimedia class. We are very busy with defending projects now, so students are doing a lot of work themselves with the help of the information science teacher and parents. This kind of activity also helps to improve the education process. Children love this project, and we have even set up a club in this classroom. The teacher uses the interactive board to show students how it works, then children use this board to draw on it and then to do some other work with their hands, which is very nice.
Vladimir Putin: No doubt, modern teaching aids make learning more fun and improve the quality of education.
Remark: You should see how happy they are in the computer class!
Vladimir Putin: Of course, it’s exiting for them. I believe that teachers are having fun as well.
Marina Makovskaya (information science teacher): Yes, of course. Using the board is fun. We now have a line of students in the classroom clambering up to the board to solve a problem, where previously I had hard time trying to get them up there. It is truly exciting, and I wish we had more classes outfitted with such equipment. You can see sparkles in the children’s eyes, and they approach studying quite differently.
Vladimir Putin: We will be sure to continue that programme by all means. This is only the first stage. How much money did they send to Kurgan, do you remember, Mr Fursenko? Let's ask the governor.
Oleg Bogomolov (Governor of the Kurgan Region): Last year?
Vladimir Putin: Yes, last year.
Oleg Bogomolov: Federal money? 189 million roubles. This year we signed with the ministry for 500 million in federal money and 550 million of our money…
Vladimir Putin: And last year it was 189 million?
Oleg Bogomolov: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: Look, it was 189 million (almost 200 million) and this year it will be almost one billion. That’s a significant increase, so your school is sure to get many new things, like other schools in the Kurgan Region. And not only the Kurgan Region but all over the country.
Remark: We're looking forward to it.
Vladimir Putin: As for repairs, we will attend to that separately within our existing reserves.
Remark: Our school is far from bad, although it is considered average. We love our school very much. We like everything here.
Vladimir Putin: I didn’t say it was bad.
Remark: Surely not.
Vladimir Putin: It is good.
Remark: We simply mentioned that we “will do some repairs.” We are always trying to improve something.
Vladimir Putin: Well, you said the roof leaks.
Remark: It does.
Vladimir Putin: We looked into your gym. I told your PT teacher that it’s a modest gym. I think she took offence. She said, “But at least we have it.”
Remark: Yes, yes.
Vladimir Putin: You placed third among schools in football, if I am not mistaken.
Remark: I am very interested in the issue of the gym. We have a very good school and our physical education teachers are quite good. The school wins prizes in certain competitions.
Vladimir Putin: This was just mentioned.
Remark: We would very much like to improve our gym because it does not measure up to our standard.
Vladimir Putin: That’s exactly what we were just talking about.
Remark: It’s a sore spot.
Remark: Especially the changing rooms. We have no doors, it’s very bad when they change clothes. There is not enough room, there is no shower and we are always short of equipment.
Vladimir Putin: So, there is room for improvement.
Remark: Yes, of course.
Remark: Everybody is waiting to receive volleyballs.
Vladimir Putin: We’ll take care of the volleyballs. If we get you a good gym we’ll take care of the volleyballs… Are there any questions for me concerning what is happening in education?
Lyubov Silantyeva: Mr Putin, while people are thinking I would like to chime in. You mentioned higher education, teachers and so on. There were many things that I found interesting in today’s article though to be honest, I just skimmed it, I did not read it thoroughly. One of the issues you raise there… Of course, it is not pertinent to the question of the education system, but I would like to take this opportunity to ask you a personal question. You write about an allowance – I hope I'm getting the terminology of your article right – an allowance for the second child. You write that allowances will be paid for the third child, I think.
Vladimir Putin: Yes.
Lyubov Silantyeva: Could you comment on this, lest I confuse everyone?
Vladimir Putin: You know that some time ago a mother's capital programme was proposed along with a whole series of measures in support of families, and especially women who have decided to have a second child.
Lyubov Silantyeva: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: Actually, the programme was aimed at encouraging the birth of a second child and at helping women and the families that have made such a decision. Now we have an opportunity – and this is not easy (I mean the huge amount of federal budget spending) – but nevertheless demography is an important issue and I write about it in detail: take a look, there are some interesting data. I propose starting a programme to encourage the birth of a third child in a family. Finances is the key issue. What is the proposal? To start paying women who have decided to have a third child in the amount of a child’s monthly subsistence level (the demographers’ concept), that’s about 7,000 roubles a month in the country on average beginning from next year, from birth and until three years of age. What does that mean? It means that today, women who give birth to a child are paid between 4,000 and 5,000 roubles depending on the region, plus another 7,000. But they receive that pay until the age of eighteen months, and now it will be until the age of three. In the first eighteen months it will be a decent amount, about equal to your monthly pay.
Lyubov Silantyeva: Yes, yes.
Vladimir Putin: I'm proceeding based on the idea that we should above all help those regions which have been dealing with demographic problems for a number of years. Which regions are these? The European part of Russia, the North-West, the Volga area, several regions east of the Urals and the Far East. Depending on how that programme works out we will review it and see what needs to be done for other Russian regions where the situation is more or less all right. But at the first stage it will involve those regions where there are problems.
What demographic problems will we face in the coming years? During the period from 1992 to 2001, there was a demographic slump, we simply fell into a pit. It's basically quite easy to understand: people were facing major problems in the economy, in the social sphere, living standards fell, all their savings practically vanished, people stopped having children in this country. Well, they did not stop, of course, but the decline was colossal during this period between 1992 and 2000-2002. Things have begun to stabilise little by little since 2002. What am I driving at? The population of those people born during that period from 1992 to 2002 turned out to be very small, and these people are now approaching child-bearing age. We do not have enough people of that generation. Therefore we will inevitably have a demographic slump, and in this context… We are aware of this and we should think in advance about how to encourage the birth of a third child, because if there are two parents and two children, there is no growth, just bare reproduction. That is not enough for Russia.
Remark: Natalya Tuzikova is present here, she is very shy, but she definitely has a question.
NatalyaTuzikova (mother of a third-grade pupil): Yes, I have a question. I was just wondering if this pay will be raised? My oldest son is a university student and the allowance is very small.
Vldimir Putin: How big is the allowance?
Natalya Tuzikova: He said 1,200 roubles, I don’t know exactly.
Vladimir Putin: 1,200 roubles is the average social allowance. What do you suggest? To increase the social allowance as of next year?
Natalya Tuzikova: Next year?
Vladimir Putin: Starting next year. To increase the social allowance (there is the concept of a student’s living minimum) to about 5,000 roubles for good students starting next year. For those who are receiving just passing marks I think it would not be right, so that we don’t have a one-size- fits-all approach... The entire allowance will be quite substantial … Currently, the average social allowance totals 1,200, is that correct?
Andrei Fursenko: The social allowance is 1,800.
Vladimir Putin: All right, 1,800. When it reaches 5,000, then it will be a decent amount. This will concern first-year and second-year students. In some universities, it will perhaps include third-year students of research/academic departments, naturally. What factors did I take into account? I was guided by the fact that first- and second-year students should concentrate on their studies…
Remark: That’s right, so that they don't have to work.
Vladimir Putin: … They should not be distracted by part-time jobs. Consequently, they will have the chance to obtain valuable knowledge and receive a good education, and/or subsequently receive a grant or a higher allowance. Some universities already pay 8,000-10,000 roubles, and in others students receive as much as 20,000-24,000 roubles. Of course, their number is small, but such universities do exist. At any rate, students with a good academic record can expect to receive higher allowances, in which case, they will no longer have to work. Or they can find jobs at their respective universities, that is, at small enterprises being established there. Or the more senior students can work part-time in their future careers. The first few years are the most critical period and we need to support young people here. This means a raise of almost 300%. Of course, it will require substantial funding on our part. Yesterday and the day before, we discussed this issue with the Ministry of Finance till late evening. But it must be done in parallel with the restructuring of the entire sector. It’s no use concealing the fact that a number of universities are merely issuing documents, diplomas and degrees without actually passing on any real knowledge. You, as school teachers, must be aware of this. We have far more universities now than we did in Soviet times. This does not meet today's demands for high-quality education because these universities are not providing high-quality education.
Olga Trubnikova: May I ask a question?
Vladimir Putin: Of course.
Olga Trubnikova (a history and social science teacher): My name is Olga Trubnikova. Mr Putin, before we came here like foot messengers, our colleagues told us to ask you the following question. It is rumoured that retired people working full-time will have their pensions taken away. And it is clear that …
Vladimir Putin: Pensions for retired people working full-time?
Olga Trubnikova: Yes, people who are retired but still work. So that if they work they will have their pensions taken away, they won't be paid out.
Vladimir Putin: Is there such a rumour?
Olga Trubnikova: Yes, there is. What I’m saying is that this is a rumour. It's clear they can't live on their pensions alone and they can't live on just their salaries.
Vladimir Putin: No, I can tell you right away that we plan nothing of the kind.
Olga Trubnikova: That’s good to hear.
Vladimir Putin: I have said many times, and I've said it again in todays' article, which the principal mentioned, I believe there is no need for us to raise the retirement age. You can read the article, it has just come out today. No provision has been made for the specific initiatives you just mentioned.
It's another matter altogether if there are people, let's say, who are enjoying their work, who want to carry on working and acquire additional pension rights and earn a higher pension. These people must be given the opportunity to do this if they so choose. Those wishing to retire at the normal time are also free to do so. And those wishing to work for a bit longer and acquire higher pensions should be given the chance. And we must create a system of incentives for people who choose this option. That is all we are talking about.
Olga Trubnikova: Those who are here today thank you very much.
Vladimir Putin: You're welcome.
Marina Makovskaya: Mr Putin, I would like to ask you a question. The average age of our school teachers is 47. As a young professional and as a future mother, I’m seriously worried about this. Who will teach my children? As I see it, young teachers are reluctant to work in schools because they will be unable to acquire housing.
Vladimir Putin: Yes.
Marina Makovskaya: Mr Putin, so my question is this. Can the government make a decision on adopting some sort of affordable housing programme, similar to the one for military personnel? In other words, teachers, while they work, would have the right to housing as part of their terms of work. Can this issue be resolved in some way?
Vladimir Putin: You know, to solve this problem we need to move on several fronts. Of course, the best option would be to raise wages and to reduce mortgage rates, so that people would be able to earn the money to afford to buy their own homes. And the third option is reducing the cost of housing itself. And all this is feasible. Notably, housing construction costs per square metre of floor space can be brought down.
But, of course, we must continue to implement programmes of affordable housing for young families. We have to talk about these categories. Many regions have these categories and we will continue to expand them. But the main approach should be to increase wages, reduce housing costs and reduce mortgage rates. I think that we can reduce mortgage rates to 3-4%. But this can only be accomplished in the context of lower bank rates and inflation. We must continue to target inflation and keep bringing it down . We have done this, and in 2011 inflation was 6%, an all-time low for the past 20 years. But this is still not enough. We must get it down to 4-5% , and then we’ll be able, with different systems of support, to provide affordable mortgage levels. And what do we mean by different support measures? First of all deposit subsidies, interest rate subsidies and helping with the deposit payment. We must create a system in which people are involved in the process, but with the help of the state the programme would be quite feasible. We have to be honest, this remains a difficult task for certain categories of workers like schoolteachers.
Marina Makovskaya: Yes, a very difficult task indeed.
Vladimir Putin: Let’s imagine a situation where mortgage rates are at 3-4-5%. Some regions already provide the deposit for teachers, they pay for young workers and also subsidise interest rates. If we then also have wage rises as well, then everything becomes feasible. In some regions, couples having their first baby …
Irina Istomina (mother of a fifth year pupil): We have such an option when the first child is born.
Vladimir Putin: Are you talking about reduced payments?
Irina Istomina: Yes, reduced payments. But the Young Family programme specifies a 35 year age limit, and that’s it.
Vladimir Putin: Yes.
Irina Istomina: My name is Irina Istomina. I represent several generations here. First of all, I was a pupil at this school. After doing some practical work I was invited to work at the administration here, so that now I am a teacher. And my child is a fifth year pupil at this school. He represents the third generation. So, literally …
Vladimir Putin: Your entire life is linked with the school.
Irina Istomina: Yes, at present half of my life is linked with school life and with this school in particular. That’s why I’m so worried about the future of this school. When we came to work here, I don’t know what it was, but we worked with such enthusiasm. We drew things ourselves, we typed, printed, worked on projects, played and invented lots of interesting things for the children. I don’t know where this came from, it's probably how we wanted to work. And now we are faced with the fact that young professionals no longer want to come to work at school. Even if they do come, they spend maybe one or two or three years, at most, and then look for somewhere better and leave for other regions offering higher wages. But we cannot do this because we have already become used to our school, we like it here, and we love our school. Young professionals don't have the same zeal and enthusiasm. Marina Makovskaya rightly noted that the average age of our teachers is 47. My child is now being taught by wonderful teachers with great depth of experience behind them. But I don’t know which of them will be around to teach our children in their 10th and 11th years.
Vladimir Putin: Forty-seven is not 69.
Irina Istomina: Yes but I’m talking about the average age. And I’m almost the youngest teacher here. I would like the school to employ young people because someone has to teach our children.
Vladimir Putin: That’s why we have adopted the school modernisation programme.
Irina Istomina: How to attract them?
Vladimir Putin: That is precisely why we adopted the school education modernisation programme, to raise teachers’ pay and tackle housing issues, the Teachers' House programme is specifically for this. I didn’t mention it, but I think that you know about this programme. Technically speaking, it can be implemented in every Russian region. Of course, we'll need the support of the federal government, but we will do this. This programme is perfectly feasible. Housing, higher wages, the modernisation of the entire system and material and technical modernisation – all together this should raise the prestige of the teaching profession.
Irina Istomina: We would very much like to raise its prestige. This is an extremely important aspect of our lives.
Vladimir Putin: We will do this little by little. I’m confident that this will produce results.
Irina Istomina: We'll wait and see.
Vladimir Putin: You said that you have started using interactive whiteboards, and that children are standing in line. In the past, they didn’t want to go to the blackboard.
Irina Istomina: Yes, but there should be no lines.
Vladimir Putin: I see.
Irina Istomina: There should be free access.
Vladimir Putin: And teachers are finding their work more interesting. Frankly speaking, when you attain the level of the average economic sector salary, this will also have some bearing. We will raise salaries gradually.
Irina Istomina: We would like to be paid at the average level for working a set number of hours. But we still have a long way to go.
Natalia Andreyeva (primary school teacher and deputy principal of the school for science and methodology): I would like to continue this idea. My name is Natalia Andreyeva, I am a primary schoolteacher. We always face a major problem while enrolling primary school students. It is very good that, from the current academic year, rates for primary school teachers have been made the same as those of all other teachers. It is quite good (18 hours). But in reality, the maximum workload of first year teachers is 21 academic hours a week. This rate is for the children rather than the teachers and, unfortunately, we cannot set a higher rate. If we deduct three hours of physical education that must be taught by a specialist and one hour of music class that is also taught by a specialist from these 21 hours, then primary school teachers will have 17 hours. This is not a full-time rate. How can we solve this problem?
Vladimir Putin: You mean these hours are not enough?
Natalya Andreyeva: It is enough for a pupil but for teachers 18 hours it's not a sufficiently high workload. The rate is lower now.
Vladimir Putin: That's what I’m talking about.
Natalya Andreyeva: If primary school teachers teach P.E., music, arts and crafts like they did in the 1970s then, of course, it will be too hard for them and the quality will suffer.
Vladimir Putin: The quality will definitely suffer.
Natalya Andreyeva: How can we solve this problem in order for teachers – especially first grade teachers – to earn a salary close to the average? Salaries are dependent on workload.
Vladimir Putin: We must gradually step away from the rule that pay is solely dependent on workload. Workloads must be differentiated. I mean the quality of work… You know, I have been active in sports all my life and in my kind of sport the more professional the coach, the younger the children he trains. That is perhaps the way to go. Mr Fursenko (Andrei Fursenko) is here and he is listening to our conversation. We will think about how to differentiate workloads so that when a sufficient rate cannot be achieved, it does not present an obstacle to increasing salaries.
Natalya Andreyeva: In fact, there is not much that needs to be added. There is a way out and we have been thinking how it could be done. In particular, federal government standards of general education have been introduced from this year, according to which first grade pupils must spend 10 hours on extracurricular activities. If these hours were funded from the federal budget and added to the curriculum it would be a good solution.
Vladimir Putin: I see.
Natalya Andreyeva: Teachers would work these hours too and get a sufficient workload. The direction that these extracurricular activities would take would be worked out by the individual teachers.
Vladimir Putin: I see, we should think about it.
Natalya Andreyeva: It would be really good.
Vladimir Putin: We will think about it.
Natalya Andreyeva: Thank you.
Vladimir Putin: What do you think about these standards in general? Did you look through them? Are they clear?
Lyubov Silantyeva: We have in fact already adopted them.
Natalya Andreyeva: Yes.
Lyubov Silantyeva: Natalya is an expert on this issue. She was quite right to ask the question about extracurricular activities. These 10 hours are not included in the curriculum. Of course, we have decent conditions in the school. We have a music school subsidiary and the Sinyaya Ptitsa (Blue Bird) children’s arts center. There is a sports school with three football pitches, the last one was built last year. There is another sports school that offers volleyball, basketball and table tennis classes. So this is doable through networking and cooperation with centers of extracurricular activities. In fact, there aren't any big problems in this area. We do not have any problems with first graders. Why? Because the teachers who are in charge of only first-year classes are usually teachers of retirement age who do not require a bigger workload and who are quite content with the workload they have. If it is a younger teacher, he or she usually teaches second graders as well. Our school does not have this problem. But we understand that it is not only us, there is a whole community of teachers. And we have a unique opportunity to speak to you and Mr Fursenko. This is why we are raising this issue, Mr Putin.
Vladimir Putin: I understand.
Lyubov Silantyeva: Of course, we are looking for a way out. What we talked about with you... We clearly understand that it is not possible to get everything at once. It will work out, one thing at a time.
Vladimir Putin: It’s good you pointed this out because you are the ones who are aware of these fine details, at the ministry level they might not notice it. We should think about this.
Remark: We are definitely in favour of 10 hours of extracurricular activity. This is required for the sake of children’s education (diversified education) and their general upbringing. There is in fact a huge amount of work being done. Unfortunately, parents are often so busy nowadays they have no time for their own children.
Vladimir Putin: Yes, life is pretty packed and intense for many.
Remark: Unfortunately, yes. That is why teachers work hard to compensate. We arrange tours and social events. We really try to keep things going at a high level.
Vladimir Putin: Good.
Remark: Thank you.
Vladimir Putin: We will think about it and consult with regional officials.
Remark: Thank you.
Tatyana Filippova (Mathematics teacher): Mr Putin, my name is Tatyana Filippova, I am a maths teacher. We live in a single educational space and all comply with the same federal standards. There is one common procedure for overseeing our work. Salaries, however, vary by region and the difference is drastic. Is it possible to fix a minimum level, a basic rate that a teacher’s salary would depend on, in order for it to never go below that rate for all regions. This is why teachers move to the northern regions – salaries there are higher. We do the same job but our earnings are completely different.
Vladimir Putin: It is true but life is more expensive there
Tatyana Filippova: It is not cheap here either but the basic rate is one of the lowest in the country, at 2,160 roubles.
Vladimir Putin: We should think about how to adjust wages to make them fair.
Tatyana Filippova: We need a basic rate...
Vladimir Putin: But if teachers here earn as much as they earn in the far north, the far north and Russia’s Far East would become deserted. People would leave the area.
Tatyana Filippova: I agree.
Vladimir Putin: These regions would become totally depopulated. We need some kind of incentive to encourage people to live there.
Tatyana Filippova: But there must be something fixed by the government, a fixed rate.
Vladimir Putin: I understand. Perhaps the gap should not be so great.
Tatyana Filippova: No, it should not be so great.
Vladimir Putin: We should think about a fair adjustment. But we cannot make it equal because if we do that we will simply lose the regions. Even those who still live there will leave.
Tatyana Filippova: I have one more question for you.
Marina Makovskaya: It could be extra payments fixed for every region, which could depend on the region.
Vladimir Putin: We must work this through on a system-wide basis to avoid a large gap emerging. I agree, we need to think about it.
Tatyana Filippova: May I ask one more question?
Vladimir Putin: Yes.
Tatyana Filippova: What do you think about the Unified State Exam in mathematics? It is a compulsory exam and all students have to sit it but not everyone needs it to be admitted to universities. Is it possible to make it optional as other subjects?
Vladimir Putin: It is possible. You are a maths teacher and you know how popular mathematics is in our country, don't you? There is long history of mathematical study in our country, which has always given us a huge competitive advantage in science and engineering – and in education in general. Of course, not everyone needs maths. I know that opinions differ about the Unified State Exam.
Tatyana Filippova: We have a good opinion about it. Our students have been sitting it since 2002.
Remark: We agree.
Vladimir Putin: You agree? I don’t hear that very often. But we have to admit that the number of applicants from peripheral regions who are admitted to the top Russian universities has increased significantly. For this you deserve a lot of credit. It means that we have really good professionals not only in Moscow and St Petersburg but in other regions as well.
Tatyana Filippova: True.
Vladimir Putin: Yes, that is precisely what this means, that the quality of teaching complies with the requirements of the country’s top universities. Of course, the Unified State Exam is far from perfect and the system needs a lot of work and improvement, which includes attracting independent observers and public organisations to oversee the examination.
Tatyana Filippova: I have one more question on this matter. When children sit the exam, maths and Russian language teachers are under huge stress, and it greatly affects their health. Is it possible to pay extra money for such stressful conditions?
Vladimir Putin: It is possible, of course. But why don’t we first ensure that all the country's teachers earn at least the average salary for the economy overall? This has not been achieved in every region yet. In 21 regions it has not been achieved yet. There has been a 30% increase but not up to the average regional level. I might not be quoting exact figures but I will try to confirm the figures when I speak with my colleagues. I think it is 21 regions that have not reached the average wage level. We must make this happen first before going further. There is no doubt we must work on increasing incomes in education.
Regarding the Unified State Exam, I understand that some students are going to study these subjects in universities and some are not. But if their plans change what are they supposed to do? In that case they will not meet the formal requirements to be admitted to another university. There are many students who want to study humanities. If they are well prepared they can transfer to engineering. Speaking of which, the number of applicants for engineering programmes increased substantially last year. Substantially. This is an important trend. You know well that we had so many students studying for degrees in economics, law and finance, that we were producing too many of these graduates. The labour market does not need that many.
Tatyana Filippova: But then I would like to suggest that extra hours be added to the teaching schedule for the 10th and 11th grades.
Lyudmila Frolova(Russian Language and Literature teacher): May I speak? We have heard about mathematics, now I would like to speak for Russian language teachers. It is really disheartening. The point is that Russian language is a compulsory subject for all Russian citizens. But there is a disturbing tendency. I will explain. The seventh year curriculum has five academic hours of Russian language. The eighth year curriculum has three hours. The ninth year curriculum has two hours. The tenth year curriculum has one hour and the eleventh year curriculum has one hour. Therefore, the balance shifts against students. But students have to prepare for the Unified State Exam, which is becoming harder each year. So the balance shifts further and further against the students. Yet they only have one academic hour of Russian. My daughter, who is in her 11th grade, is in this audience, and she can give you an honest account of how hard I have been working, which is why 82% to 86% of students in the ninth grade passed the state certification exam. I hope the 11th grade will do equally well. I would like to praise my school for...
Vladimir Putin: They are teachers of other subjects.
Lyudmila Frolova: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: It’s easier for you because you teach Russian.
Lyudmila Frolova: Our results on the Unified State Examination are higher than the national average and among the top ten in Kurgan. Why should I be modest about our achievements? Why should I keep them quiet when you are here? But I also have a question… Do you understand what I’m saying?
Vladimir Putin: No.
Remark: Ms Frolova, you have praised your school; this may be enough.
Lyudmila Frolova: I want to say that we have fewer lessons but the significance and the complexity of the questions on the Russian language in the Unified State Examination have grown. I am asking you to increase the number of Russian lessons.
Vladimir Putin: I’ll be frank, even my current position does allow me to issue direct orders on where to make increases or reductions. But I nevertheless try to listen to professionals when such specific issues are raised. The Education Minister is here with us today. Scholars from the Academy of Education, professionals, as well as, importantly, the general public should once more conduct an analysis of the school curriculum with regard to what, how and where to increase or reduce. This is a highly delicate issue because we should not burden students so much that they will have no time for sports or hobbies. We must not overstrain the children.
Lyudmila Frolova: I agree.
Vladimir Putin: There are certain boundaries which child psychologists and physicians should outline for us. Sanitary standards, which are for the most part respected at enterprises, are often disregarded at schools, although this issue is equally important to the children as to the adults who work at these enterprises. Therefore, decisions on making any increases or reductions should be made by professionals. I have heard what you said, and if this is really true, that you have only one academic hour of Russian language, then I say this is not enough. I think that the minister will look into this issue once again.
Lyudmila Frolova: May I continue?
Vladimir Putin: Of course.
Lyudmila Frolova: This is a painful issue. I have heard differing opinions and perhaps can even predict what your response will be to this issue, but I want to hear you say it. It is clear that the faculty of any school, not only the one I have been working with – I have worked at two schools, including ten years at the current one – tries to improve their quality of education. The results of our efforts can be seen at competitions, Olympiads, research and practice conferences, the Unified State Examinations, and the final state certification exams, and by looking at those students who graduate from schools with silver and gold medals. Over the past 26 years, ten students have graduated from my school with gold and 25 with silver medals. A student I have been teaching since the fifth grade who is now studying in another teacher’s class deserves a medal. I am deeply concerned now because he is a wonderful and talented boy, but the students who graduate with [gold and silver] medals no longer enjoy any privileges [when enrolling at a university]. These incentives have been cancelled, which means that the medal will simply signify that he has studied very well.
Vladimir Putin: First, this moral incentive in itself is not bad at all. And second, not all of these benefits have been cancelled, because additional interviews are held at our leading universities, for example at Moscow State University (I have spoken with its rector more than once), where special attention is given to those students who graduated from secondary school with a medal, as well as other talented graduates. They also spotlight the winners of various Olympiads. Winner certificates do not offer direct benefits, but they draw the attention of the university management to these graduates, future university students. Therefore, these incentives are not completely useless.
Lyudmila Frolova: Thank you.
Yelena Sevastyanova (the mother of two seventh-graders): May I? My name is Yelena. I am a mother and a teacher. There is a lot being said today by athletes and business people about the one-hour shift from daylight saving time to winter time. I am worried because our children go to school in the afternoon shift and then attend various leisure and hobby clubs and play sports, and they return home after dark. But the situation this year was different. The parents, the teachers, and the children like it. Not all parents are home when their children return from school. So I am asking you to think about our children if you are asked to consider shifting to daylight saving time. Don’t approve it.
Vladimir Putin: Are you suggesting that we leave everything as it is?
Yelena Sevastyanova: Yes, we like it as it is.
Remark: Because you have promised to move the clock.
Yelena Sevastyanova: No, discussions are still…
Remark: …they are still discussing it.
Vladimir Putin: Many people are criticising Dmitry Medvedev’s decision to keep DST, in particular those who often travel abroad and watch TV shows, especially sporting events abroad. There are also other arguments against summer time. The clock was not moved last autumn because many people regard moving from summer time to winter time and back negatively. And now they are criticising the decision not to move the clock to winter time. I want to say again that Dmitry Medvedev and I will not uphold that decision unconditionally. Mr Medvedev, who made the decision, will not fight tooth and nail for it either: he made the decision because many people asked him to stop moving the clock back for winter time and then forward for summer time. I repeat that this decision is not set in stone, but we are not planning to reverse it now. What I mean is that we should once again discuss the issue with experts and with civil society organisations and society as a whole – modern communication systems allow for this – and only then make the final decision after a careful analysis of the issue without any political considerations.
Yelena Sevastyanova: Thank you.
Sergei Usmanov (the father of a fifth-grader and a ninth-grader): May I?
Vladimir Putin: Yes, of course.
Sergei Usmanov: My name is Sergei Usmanov; I am from the parents’ committee. I have a special interest in this school as a member of the parents’ committee and also as a graduate of this school. My questions directly concern children.
My first question has to do with the provision of fresh water to the school. Tap water is very bad in the Kurgan Region because it is hard. Our pipes have become calcified and they are leaking, which leads to accidents.
School catering is a perennial problem. This is because the meals are paid for by the parents, which no one is against: one meal costs 37 roubles. All children in the primary school (up to the fourth grade) and in the next few grades usually have these meals, but not the high school children. They have grown and besides, there is a shop 50 metres from the school where you can buy soda. We have suggested organising a luncheon bar at school. The issue is probably being considered by the administration but no conclusions have been made so far.
Vladimir Putin: I can assure you that the federal government is not considering this.
Sergei Usmanov: Yes, I know. The trouble is that it involves creating a job and approving sanitary standards for selling such foods at school.
Vladimir Putin: School catering is really a serious issue that concerns not only your school but the entire system of education. There are people in this audience who remember how it was in the Soviet period, when two percent of school students received a hot breakfast and 25% a glass of milk and a bun free of charge. Today free meals – breakfast – are provided to…
Sergei Usmanov: Only to children from large families.
Remark: And also from low-income families.
Vladimir Putin: No, free breakfasts are provided to 40% and free lunches to 19% of school students across the country, which is more than in the Soviet Union. The number of children who receive a free hot breakfast or lunch has grown tenfold. Yet school catering remains a major problem due to the inadequate infrastructure.
Sergei Usmanov: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: We should create a system of school catering. Total spending on school meals nationwide is 60 billion roubles, if memory serves. Sixty billion, right? This is a huge sum and if we organise the system properly, in particular spending, there will be substantial growth in quality.
Sergei Usmanov: I think we need competition in this field, while we only…
Vladimir Putin: Precisely, and also modern technology. We need modern cooking technology for schools. There should be one or two school catering companies working under a separate programme. There are modern ways of cooking meals for such establishments as schools, and they are being used on a growing scale in this country. This is an important area which we will definitely support.
As for the Kurgan Region, tap water is a special matter.
Sergei Usmanov: It’s a problem…
Vladimir Putin: Yes, this is a problem. I'll be talking with the governor today; give me your suggestions for this.
Sergei Usmanov: At least on sewage structures in each school, and on disposable filters.
Vladimir Putin: Good. This is an absolutely concrete thing that we can give some thought to and implement.
Sergei Usmanov: Because a school is unable to implement it.
Vladimir Putin: That’s clear.
Sergei Usmanov: No funds.
Vladimir Putin: That’s clear.
Sergei Usmanov: Because for some twelve years, as long as my child has been attending school, we have been repairing classrooms at our own expense.
Vladimir Putin: I can tell you for sure that I will speak to specialists, sanitary doctors and following their advice we will solve this problem.
Sergei Usmanov: Mr Putin, one more question for the primary school. Primary school is the beginning: people begin to study, tests are being carried out, new programmes are being introduced. We are doing our best to improve everything…
Vladimir Putin: And class time for the Russian language is reducing.
Sergei Usmanov: My older children are now in the ninth grade. When my children turned old enough to go to school, a set of textbooks for an academic year cost 2,300 roubles. Now I hear that a set of textbooks for the fourth grade costs 4,300 roubles.
Vladimir Putin: The price doubled.
Sergei Usmanov: Yes. And why? Because there is a publisher lobby there…
Vladimir Putin: That is the case.
Sergei Usmanov: Or market competition has been suppressed.
Vladimir Putin: You know, there is a number of problems there, at least two major problems. The first is the quality, the content of the textbooks. The second problem is the price. And here, we, of course… The ministry must do a lot in order to create clear, understandable structures including public representatives that would monitor the quality of textbooks. Including textbooks in hard sciences – physics, mathematics, and so on. For example, there are some history textbooks, just open them, you will be amazed!
Sergei Usmanov: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: I cannot imagine where they have taken it from and how it has been approved.
Sergei Usmanov: And take hard sciences, mathematics. It is no secret that many generations used to use the same textbook. That’s how it was in the past. Nobody said that a textbook became morally obsolete. How can mathematics become morally obsolete?
Vladimir Putin: It is a very commercialised and badly regulated area. I completely agree with you, and naturally it is necessary to bring order here. It is necessary to take adequate decisions to standardise these textbooks and minimise prices.
Sergei Usmanov: It should be done ahead of the academic year…
Vladimir Putin: Yes.
Sergei Usmanov: It is necessary to supply all textbooks to schools in summer because if on September 10 children are without textbooks and the bookshops do not sell these textbooks either, this would be a problem, Mr Putin. The beginning of the academic year – the classes are not provided with the necessary registers, we collect money, buy them with the parents’ money.
Remark: He means class registers. They come only in October, sometimes.
Sergei Usmanov: It is ridiculous but it is a fact.
Vladimir Putin: I see. Today we will discuss it with the governor, he is sitting and attentively listening. This is an elementary thing. It is surprising that they are lacking. I have heard about it, good.
Roman Perminov (9th grade pupil): Mr Putin, may I ask a question?
Vladimir Putin: Go ahead.
Roman Perminov: My name is Roman. I have a question on school modernisation: we have technology classrooms for girls and for boys, there is some equipment including lathes there that was installed when the school was built. Are there any programmes for replacement or improvement of this equipment?
Vladimir Putin: Yes, we will do it under this modernisation programme. And we will purchase equipment, too.
Roman Perminov: We haven’t got special tools and materials to work with either. Are there any programmes for supplying wood to schools?
Vladimir Putin: I think that these issues should be solved locally within the preparation process. Let us agree: as I said we will help you with repairs and as part of these repairs we will supply these things concerned with elementary equipment, only modern equipment.
Remark: Thank you.
Remark: I am a parent. Two of my children go to school here and I am interested in security, naturally. It is no secret that a school is a strategic facility.
Vladimir Putin: Naturally.
Remark: The security in our school is provided by extra-departmental security, and the parents pay for it, it is their initiative. Is the government planning to create a guard service in pre-school institutions, in schools? I am interested in this.
Vladimir Putin: To be honest, nobody has ever raised this issue this way.
Remark: Guard service is for the security of children.
Vladimir Putin: We will give it a thought. Was it you who proposed to introduce special units?
Remark: Currently, you know, our school doesn’t even have an inspector, they abolished inspectors even in schools.
Vladimir Putin: This is a different case.
Remark: And this, too…
Vladimir Putin: Yes, good.
Remark: Perhaps it is possible to unite it somehow. This guard service could include the inspectors.
Vladimir Putin: In any case we could organise it so that these inspectors you are talking about would monitor this problem and see what should be done in some unfavourable situations.
Remark: Yes. They would stay in schools as guards and they would know the children attending the school.
Vladimir Putin: I agree. Yes, they would know, they would understand, they would respond timely…
Remark: Yes, they would promptly solve the problems that we…
Vladimir Putin: I see. Good, let us think. I promise you: we will discuss it. This is right.
Remark: Good. Thank you.
Vladimir Putin: Not at all. This is a right decision.
Marina Smentina (teacher of world arts): Mr Putin, may I ask you a question? My name is Marina Smentina, I teach world arts. I want to ask you about the soul.
Vladimir Putin: About the soul?
Marina Smentina: Yes, about the soul. The issue of cultural and moral education existed in all times, always. I am interested in the following issue: three years ago they introduced an experimental course “The foundations of religious culture and secular ethics.” And I want to ask several questions: how is the Ministry of Education meant to divide classes into modules, on the parents’ choice, with only half of an hour for every class? And then what happens, the course takes the 3rd and the 4th quarters of the 4th grade, and the 1st and the 2nd quarters of the 5th grade? That is all. Children have an enormous interest, they want to continue, but there is no continuation. It is only logical to ask: what next? And here is a proposal, as I am a teacher of world arts; given the closeness between the world arts and the foundations of religious culture and secular ethics, is it possible to adjust the programme on world arts, to include it in the curriculum as a subject and implement a function, that is the tasks included in the foundations of religious culture and secular ethics?
Vladimir Putin: It is possible to do that. Why has the Ministry of Education introduced this course in such an insignificant measure? The answer is simple. This course was introduced experimentally. I am sure you know that prior to its introduction there had been a lot of discussion whether it was needed at all. And therefore we introduced it experimentally to see what it will bring about, how people, the pupils and the parents will respond. The current practice has proved that it is in high demand. The majority of pupils and parents stand for its continuation and extension, and surely we will do it. The forms and extent are discussing points. I am not ready to answer this question at the moment. It should be solved comprehensively, taking into account the workload of pupils and the need to teach them other basic subjects including the Russian language, literature, and mathematics. This issue should be tackled in a deliberate and serious manner. But it is quite obvious that it is on demand.
Marina Smentina: Thank you.
Vladimir Putin: I met recently with religious representatives, they spoke about it, too. There had been many doubts whether any conflicts would arise from that: some wish to study Judaism, some wish to study Islam, some wish to study Orthodox Christianity. It has turned out that there are no conflicts.
Marina Smentina: There are no conflicts.
Vladimir Putin: It turns out that it goes on very comfortably, everybody likes it, it is very interesting to everybody and, most importantly, it is very necessary and useful, because as it turns out we have nothing apart from the moral and ethical values promoted by our religions and we cannot have anything besides that. But this small part called secular ethics is of course in high demand, too. One should not impose anything on anybody, but this subject in this combination is absolutely in demand and necessary.
I think it is high time for me to move to the meeting, although essentially we can say that the meeting took place already. Thank you very much.
Remarks: Thank you! Goodbye.
