VLADIMIR PUTIN
ARCHIVE OF THE OFFICIAL SITE
OF THE 2008-2012 PRIME MINISTER
OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
VLADIMIR PUTIN
ARCHIVE OF THE OFFICIAL SITE
OF THE 2008-2012 PRIME MINISTER
OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
VLADIMIR PUTIN
Transcript of the beginning of the meeting:
Vladimir Putin: Mr Zhirinovsky, Mr Lebedev. In accordance with the law, the government is soon to deliver its 2010 report to parliament. I believe that this is a good and salutary practice.
We know that Russia still faces economic problems as a result of the global financial and economic crisis. Russia is slowly clawing its way out of the crisis, and I believe that we will emerge with only a few scratches. But of course there will be losses, and people can sense it. You and I realise that we had become accustomed to economic growth in past decades. But the current situation is completely different, and many find it difficult to adapt – ordinary people and policy-makers alike.
At the same time, I would like you to acknowledge that we discuss most of our anti-crisis policies with the parliament. Without some of the parliament’s decisions, we would not have been able to act promptly and effectively. The results would have been more modest. You must now see some obvious upward trends. I would like this meeting to be the first in a series of preliminary consultations with the leaders of different (political) groups in the Duma. I would like to hear your opinions and make the necessary changes to the report I am going to make in parliament.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: We are glad to see you again, Mr Putin. We will also be glad to see some of our ideas reflected in your report. I am referring to the problems now facing the world – not Russia alone. One of them is energy – and particularly, nuclear power. If we could use thorium more exclusively as nuclear fuel… Russian physicist Lev Maksimov from Novosibirsk has been working on this problem for ten years. The Germans began showing interest in his projects after what happened in Japan. A thorium reactor can be sealed underground and work there for 50 years without any damage to the surrounding environment – almost none at all. Thorium reactors would rule out accidents like Chernobyl or Fukushima that result in melting fuel, excessive radiation levels, and all the potential hazards that people fear.
Rosatom’s programme lays an emphasis on building more nuclear power stations; however, it does not focus on the use of thorium reactors. It would be useful to build at least one and see how it works – confirm that it is better. Safety and the time factor are important, of course. We currently face huge institutional costs every ten or fifteen years. Tens of billions of roubles are spent annually on nuclear waste. We’ll see if thorium reactors are more efficient economically. Considering that the whole world is focused on nuclear power these days… We have the thorium, and Maksimov is a Russian physicist, as well.
Modern nuclear reactors run on Uranium-235. Our resources are gradually being depleted. It would be wiser to use Uranium-238 and save the Uranium-235 for power stations that can only use this type of fuel. This is a scientific fact. What I am saying here is all based on the Russian scientific research of the past few years.
Another concern is transport. If you have time, please look at one project that is also being developed by Russian scientists. It is a mega-project involving Sergei Stepashin (head of Russia’s Audit Chamber), researchers such as Dr Gennady Osipov (director of the Institute of Socio-Political Research), and Pavel Borodin (state secretary of the Russia-Belarus Union State). This is a mega-project that is meant to build a massive mainline railroad, 47,000 thousand kilometres long, from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic – well, at least from Vladivostok to Brest, Belarus – along with 20,000 km of fibre-optic cables and a highway.
That is, of course, a major project. It is unprecedented. It costs somewhere in the vicinity of $4 trillion. I am talking in dollars because the investments would implicitly come from interested foreigners. If it were built, however, it would take seven days to transport goods from the Pacific to the Atlantic. Today, it takes one to two months by container and is also expensive. There is the Silk Road (pipeline) through China-Kazakhstan-Caucasus-Balkans (11 countries in all), but it is hazardous. It's some sort of cross between... let's say our Nord Stream, which is profitable, and Nabucco, which isn't. It's the same thing. This is a mega-project, and it is quite capable of creating 25 million jobs. Construction would take 10-15 years, and it would take 5-7 years to recoup the costs. If you get the opportunity, maybe you can read about it. These are scientific calculations – nothing of our own. We just support it, and we have for several years. When we describe the project to Minister Nabiullina, she simply tells us that there are other federal programmes for transport, and they cannot put this project on the agenda until 2015. Well, maybe you...
Vladimir Putin: It's a capital-intensive project.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: Yes, very capital-intensive. But it is understood that Germany, China, Japan, and South Korea are all interested. And that means providing concession areas in Siberia along the line, taking into account that these investors would be supplying the initial funds, and then, in 5-7 years, they would be given a share of the revenue. That is, it's a barter scheme in which they invest, and we allow them to recoup their costs later.
Our third priority is food. We already have the Ministry of Agriculture, but bearing in mind that the whole planet is suffering, we can feed only 30% of the (global) population. Today, out of seven billion people, only three billion (are well nourished). And what are the other four billion to do? Live from hand to mouth. Therefore, our agriculture will always be available for export, of course, but should be directed primarily at satisfying our own needs. I'm referring not only to quantity but also to quality. In Europe, the land is no longer safe – they put so much fertiliser into it that no healthy food can be grown. We have a vast quantity of arable land, and, most importantly, quality land. They will pay big money for our food, which is produced naturally. That alone could completely eclipse revenue streams from the sale of petroleum products and provide for us for a long time. The value of agriculture is perpetual.
There will always be a food problem because populations grow much faster than they can be sustained. And (many countries) do not have the ability to provide for their people. They cannot grow more, much less in natural soil. I'm aware that there isn't a particularly positive attitude towards establishing new agencies. The Ministry of Agriculture is still expanding its operations, increasing the provision of fertiliser, livestock, and so on, but as regards the food itself – production, distribution, etc. – of course, it would be better to have a separate office or ministry. It's all the more pressing because we need to resolve the issue of nutrition in our own country. We have schools, universities, large companies, the military, and even the penitentiary system – all of which account for millions of people who rely on government assistance in food and nutrition. If this new ministry were able to oversee these areas, then long-term exports would become feasible.
Vladimir Putin: But you and I would like to reduce the size of the bureaucracy, and in this case we would be expanding it…
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: Yes, yes, but given the fact that food is still... Just think, perhaps the Ministry of Agriculture can remain in place, but then there could be a federal agency for food – one that would only concern itself with food. Is there a chain? Procurement offices would buy everything, process it, and incorporate it into existing distribution networks. We would thus remove a number of intermediaries and lower prices. I mean it in this sense.
Finally, there is the issue of artificial bankruptcies among companies. Some 300,000 new ones appear (each year), 200,000 of these go under, and of those 200,000 bankruptcies, 30% are artificial: a competitor simply takes them over or they are put to inappropriate use. It's a shame! Lost jobs, people on the streets, and whole arteries of business are lost in Russian industries. But if manufacturing associations in such sectors could be made more powerful... They exist today to control economic sectors, and (with their help) prosecutors could identify those involved in an artificial bankruptcy. And then they could apply Article 159 of the Criminal Code – “Fraud.” Perhaps (the perpetrators) did not even want to buy the company! They just forcibly bankrupted it and seized everything. This is an important issue because 200,000 companies file for bankruptcy each year.
Vladimir Putin: What is your proposal?
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: That we stop artificial bankruptcies. Indeed, there is obsolete equipment, but we need to prevent instances in which competitors are removed – when the company has any value – or a company is simply taken over and turned into something else.
Vladimir Putin: What measures are you proposing?
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: One measure is strengthening manufacturing associations among manufacturers. Take, for example, tyres – tyres for cars. There are several manufacturers. They should be paying close attention to why you are closing a plant – there are such groups in Yaroslavl and elsewhere. But they do nothing, they are weak...
Vladimir Putin: We are also trying to pass various regulatory instruments on to them.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: That's it! Strengthen manufacturing associations in different economic sectors. Work! This is your social service (in action). It cannot simply be called a trade union because it is not a labour issue and rather pertains to regulation. That is, if they work hard enough, we can practically eliminate bankruptcy. And those who are engaged in this maliciously should be punished according to the Criminal Code.
In Turkey, I asked, “Guys, do you have any racketeering?” They replied, “What is racketeering?” and I explained, “Well, that's when they come to a shop and demand protection money.” I was told, “It's out of the question. There are 100 shops, and when we all come out, all 100 of us, they leave.” They all have an interest in their business community, so racketeering is impossible. When individual companies are scattered across the country, they are preyed upon. And it's a pity that they go under.
Such associations could, among other things, manage the whole chain (of distribution) from primary suppliers to sales outlets because large chains stores are a good thing, but monopolies tend to artificially increase prices. We need to eliminate intermediaries and encourage manufacturers to sell quickly, even at a lower price. And in that respect, this could also be a positive development.
But if we look at other issues, say, those related to ideology, many academics say that after discarding socialism, we never proposed a viable alternative to replace it and thus created an ideological vacuum. Judging by our press and television, Soviet films are shown from time to time to cheer up the older generation so that they do not think of themselves as losers who ended up on the sidelines.... I mean (people) need a goal to pursue. Maybe we should be more active in explaining that (society) includes everyone, everyone has a place, and (some things) need to be revised. Entertaining films and programmes are all well and good, but professional skills of public importance... We (Liberal Democrats) have put forward a 'Historical Reconciliation Act', but all our attempts to include it on the agenda for discussion in the State Duma invariably fall through. We need to dot the i's and cross the t's by declaring that tsarist Russia, Soviet Russia, and the new Russia are all one state woven from a single historical fabric.
Vladimir Putin: We need to think about this together.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: Yes, we need to sign some act and hold a signing ceremony on June 12 – that is, on the Day of Russia – our common Russia, be it tsarist, Soviet, or present-day.
I welcome the bicentenary of the forces of the Interior Ministry because they existed not only in Soviet Russia but in tsarist Russia as well. Or, take, for example, the KGB. Why (is their professional holiday marked) on December 20? We should also celebrate the tercentenary of the establishment of the secret police by Peter the Great. These services have always existed, and they existed everywhere. Why only account for the time since December 20(, 1917)?
Finally, there's Interior Ministry. This ministry was established by Alexander I two hundred years ago. Why (celebrate the Day of the Interior Ministry) on November 10? We need to be consistent in such matters.
The Foreign Ministry has already marked the bicentenary of its existence. Other ministries as well....
Vladimir Putin: Where do the oprichniki (Ivan the Terrible's repressive corps of armed cavalry) come in?
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: The oprichniki can be compared with today's riot police. They were equipped with truncheons at the time of Ivan the Terrible, much the same way they are today. They were also interior troops.
Vladimir Putin: They had brooms tied to their saddles (as symbol of sweeping the country clean of dissent).
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: Yes, the oprichniki were also interior troops. They were not used to resolve foreign conflicts; the army and the home guard were used for that. But that's all history now. Ivan the Terrible had oprichniki, whereas Peter the Great reshuffled things and set up a secret bureau – the name sounds good. Later, there was the Third Department and, finally, the Soviet Extraordinary Commission. These services have survived to this day. I would like to see more attention paid to such continuity in order for us to be aware of ourselves as a single, continuous state.
There is something I don’t fully agree with, and I'm referring to repossessions and the bailiff service. Listen, all we need is to send a writ of execution to the place of employment, as they did in Soviet times. Let them deduct 25% from the salary (of the delinquent party). Why break into houses and take their last televisions? And these are only low-income households – they do not take anything from wealthy people.… They need to take social status into account when they are taking away someone's last appliance. Now, for the children. They take away children from problem families. What's the big deal if a child has a disabled mother? If her daughter wants to live with her, why take her daughter away? It is an abuse of power of sorts.
Vladimir Putin: This is not about bailiffs, this is about court decisions.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: Yes, their responsibility is to enforce court decisions. But they could be less uncompromising – say, give a postponement. Let's authorise them to extend the period of enforcement. Say that recently they closed a psychiatric institution in Kaliningrad because it failed to meet fire safety standards, with all those iron bars on the windows.... Where will they take their patients? They'll say, “Sorry, but you have to go, we have to shut down.” You see, they are in a hurry. They could think up something – anyway, people own property… Let them send (a writ of execution) to a person's place of employment… Why take personal property away? If you send a writ of execution to the place of employment, they will deduct 25% or 50% from a person's salary.
And then as for these underground casinos.… It is upsetting, of course, that a year and a half – now it will be two years on July 1 – since…
Vladimir Putin: No, a bit longer.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: Since July 1, 2009.
Vladimir Putin: That’s right.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: Two years have passed (since the ban on casino activity was enforced).
Vladimir Putin: It's been a long time since we started talking about this.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: It has been. The local authorities, of course…, governors and mayors know all about it. This could be prevented, as it is not only an issue of avoiding taxes and making money on the side but of contributing to the misery of those who lose their money. It is an addiction of sorts.
Vladimir Putin: A drug.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: As far as Moscow goes, I don't know… They seem to oppose the idea of consolidating the municipal administration with that of the Moscow Region, but somehow, we need to expand it in order to develop residential housing in nice forest zones and stop construction in the city centre.
Traffic jams: why do we have them? Because they demolished the old five-storey buildings and replaced them with high-rises whose residents have even more cars. Instead, they should demolish the old buildings and put up multi-level parking lots – nothing should be built in the city centre.
I'm happy that the State Duma is moving to a new building that will be constructed in the area where the Hotel Russia stood. Every day, 4,000 people come to Okhotny Ryad Street (where the State Duma is located).
Vladimir Putin: We've been talking about this for five years now.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: But it should be realised, if possible. Why build another hotel there? We have plenty of hotels, especially five-star hotels. It is senseless to build a five-star hotel because it will bring only modest profits. As for the impressive parliamentary centre, that is going to make sense because our building.…
Vladimir Putin: Could be...
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: Rented out?
Vladimir Putin: …and money earned.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: Yes. Pavel Borodin came up with a project through which in exchange for renting one building on Okhotny Ryad Street and another on Dmitrovka Street, a firm could construct new premises for the State Duma and the Federation Council free of charge. Free of charge! Provided that it can rent both buildings. The project was ready to be realised, and the plan was to start construction on Poklonnaya Hill, but, unfortunately, it was frustrated.
Vladimir Putin: There was a legal hitch that had to do with the owners.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky: That's right. And as a result, residential housing in Moscow… If we extend the city boundary at least 50 kilometres, encompassing Moscow's immediate suburbs, people will move there – youth included – because there will be no other (new housing). The construction of residential apartments in the city centre is out of the question – nothing can be built there. All offices and warehouses should be moved outside of Moscow. In a sense, the traffic problem has been artificially created – and it can be resolved. If you don't mind, I have some private matters to discuss with you.
Vladimir Putin: Of course.
