VLADIMIR PUTIN
ARCHIVE OF THE OFFICIAL SITE
OF THE 2008-2012 PRIME MINISTER
OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
VLADIMIR PUTIN
ARCHIVE OF THE OFFICIAL SITE
OF THE 2008-2012 PRIME MINISTER
OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
VLADIMIR PUTIN
During the video conference, several archaeologists asked Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to upgrade the status of specific archaeological sites in Russia.
In particular, Mr Putin and the archaeologists discussed the Naryn-Kala Citadel, an outstanding archaeological site that deserves recognition as an excellent example of medieval defence capabilities and the location where the world's oldest official Muslim inscription was found. The inscription dates back to 792 and mentions Caliph Harun al-Rashid (also known as Aaron the Just), a historical figure and hero from One Thousand and One Nights. Archaeologists said that granting the Naryn-Kala Citadel federal status as an archaeological site would help speed up funding for further excavations. Mr Putin promised to issue a relevant directive to the Ministry of Culture.
Another archaeologist at the meeting described the excavations of Russia's largest ancient site, the city of Phanagoria on the Taman Peninsula. The archaeologist focused on the need for further study of the underwater part of the city, which had been inundated due to tectonic processes, and said that Phanagoria should be given status as a federal reserve in order to help preserve it. Mr Putin promised to look into the issue.
The prime minister also promised to look into the possibility of granting Ignatyev Cave in Bashkortostan the status of a reserve in order to protect the petroglyphic images from the early Paleolithic period that are threatened due to economic activities above the cave.
Transcript of the meeting:
Vladimir Putin: Good afternoon. I'd like to welcome everyone today - both those who are here in person and our colleagues from all across Russia. I must say that I've visited several archaeological excavations, and it always has a great impression on me, because you start to feel the power of the Russian state. And the power of the Russian state rests on our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity. When I do manage to visit an excavation site, I feel this sense of the immensity of our state and the depth of its historical heritage. And this is stunning. What is particularly interesting is that it's as if you are being immersed in the time that archaeologists are studying at that moment.
I remember how I was told about the excavations that were being carried out at the site of an ancient court. I think it was here in Novgorod. They found a birch-bark manuscript that illuminated the proceedings of a particular case. A few years later, maybe five or ten years later, they found another birch-bark manuscript that showed what the outcome of the case had been. It's simply incredible.
Russia has always been part of European civilisation, but at the same time it has always been very open and benevolent to the East - and this is one of the strengths of our state and our people.
Therefore, I suggest we start with Derbent, where professor of archaeology and ethnology Murtazali Gadzhiyev is currently working. Could you please tell us how this work is going? I've been to the citadel and looked with pride at some of the most ancient shrines in the world, some of which are Muslim and some Russian Orthodox. I know that this project has been going on for a while. How do things stand today? Go ahead, please.
Murtazali Gadzhiyev: Mr Putin, let me extend my greetings to you from ancient Derbent, as well as to the people of Novgorod and my archaeological colleagues. Indeed, Derbent is a unique city, located at the crossroads of Europe and Asia, in the Caspian Corridor. By virtue of its geography and politics it is connected to the histories and destinies of many tribes and peoples in the Caucasus, East Europe and Asia.
This is the 40th field season of this archaeological expedition to Derbent, which is organised by the Institute of History, Archaeology and Ethnography at the Dagestan Research Centre. We have been working on this particular site for several years now. This is site number 23, which you visited in 2005.
This season we have uncovered the remnants of a monumental structure dating back to between the 11th and 14th centuries. It is still unclear what it was used for. The site is located in the southern corner of the Naryn-Kala Citadel. You can see the mid-5th century walls. As you know, Derbent was one of the largest medieval cities in this country and the Caucasus. We are still unsure what this enormous monumental structure was used for. This is the sixth architectural complex; they occur here in layers.
We have made some interesting discoveries this season as well, in particular discoveries about the trade and artisanal importance of the city. Here you can see the fragments of magnificent artefacts produced here. Some really beautiful examples. We have found Chinese ceramics here. I'd also like to show you pirated faience from the 12th and 13th centuries.
These findings demonstrate the extent of this unique mediaeval megalopolis's trade ties. These are interesting finds, and I'm pleased to note that UNESCO included Derbent on the list of World Heritage Sites about this time of year seven years ago. As you know, this is the only site in southern Russia on this list.
Derbent is a federally recognised archaeological site, with 25 federally recognised historical structures. Mr Putin, I think that considering the historical and cultural significance of Derbent - not just for Russia but for the world - it is important to set apart the federally recognised sites. I believe that it is very important and absolutely necessary to grant federal status to the Derbent museum and reserve as well.
Vladimir Putin: What are the sources of current funding?
Murtazali Gadzhiyev: Archaeological research is funded with grants from the Russian Foundation for Humanities. But, as you know, there's a recession right now, and our funding was cut back a little. But this is not so terrible.
I'd like to mention one more aspect of the funding. Many students take part in archaeological excavations. In particular, our expedition has some students from Dagestan State University, and not just faculty members from the Academy of Sciences.
This is the first time students touch history, so to speak. This is a very important and memorable moment for them, for their student lives and for their development into professional historians.
Of course, the financial support they receive is very small - a 50-rouble field allowance per student. This is, of course, a very small sum.
Vladimir Putin: Yes, I agree. Mr Gadzhiyev, what will you gain if the museum is upgraded to federal status? Why do you need this? What do you hope will come out of this?
Murtazali Gadzhiyev: In fact, I don't need this, because we are part of academia, whereas museums are the responsibility of the Ministry of Culture. Our republic is subsidised and if the Ministry of Culture takes charge of the museum, it will be easier to fund its operation and will give a fresh impetus to our work.
Vladimir Putin: Okay. I will draft a relevant directive for the Ministry of Culture, and we will discuss how to resolve this issue together with the leadership of this republic.
Murtazali Gadzhiyev: Thank you!
Vladimir Putin: Your expedition has found the world's oldest official Muslim inscription. Where was it found?
Murtazali Gadzhiyev: I found it when I was inspecting the alpine wall, which is part of the 42 km-long fortifications near the city. This inscription dates back to 792 or 793, contains a date according to our calendar and mentions Caliph Harun al-Rashid [also known as Aaron the Just], a historical figure and hero from One Thousand and One Nights. This is, of course, a sign. It is no surprise that it was not found somewhere in the Middle East, but here, where you could say Islam began in Russia. The same Derbent that was one of the early Christian centres...
Vladimir Putin: One of the oldest churches in the region is located in the citadel, correct?
Murtazali Gadzhiyev: Yes, one of the oldest, although there are some that are even older. For example, the throne of the Catholicos of Caucasian Albania was located here up until the middle of the sixth century, which is very important for our understanding of the religious nature of the medieval Derbent. Just several years ago, UNESCO honoured Derbent as an example of tolerance. The destinies of different religions are intertwined in this city.
Vladimir Putin: It was you who found the inscription, correct?
Murtazali Gadzhiyev: Yes, I found it together with my colleagues, and I inspected it.
Vladimir Putin: Well, let me congratulate you once again on these findings and your research. We will certainly consider granting specific sites here federally recognised status. Thank you very much!
Vladimir Putin: Now let's move on to Novosibirsk, where Vyacheslav Molodin and his colleagues are working on the Tartas-1 burial grounds. Mr Molodin, please.
Vyacheslav Molodin: Good evening, Mr Prime Minister.
Here in Siberia it's a bit cooler than in your area. Today it's 13 ºC, and it's pretty windy. So don't be surprised that the guys in the excavation pit are dressed warmly. We're working at the Tartas 1 site within the framework of the research programme The South of Western Siberia in Ancient Times and the Middle Ages. This work is being carried out by the Western Siberian unit of the North Asian expedition of the Institute of Archaeology and Ethnography at the Siberian division of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
This site received much attention after a geophysical survey of this area showed its great archaeological value. This is our eighth season at this site, and we have explored about 400 burial sites and some 350 ritualistic sites. Judging by the results of geophysical survey, there are at least 1,000 sites yet to explore here.
We're currently exploring a unique sector of this excavation area, one which shows signs of the influx of tribes from what is now Kazakhstan that took place in the Bronze Age. The tools we've found here have allowed us to determine several waves of migration. On the table you can see some findings from the current field season, and they are really amazing. When studying some of the anthropological and paragenetic material, we are able to talk not just about cultural changes but also ethnic changes, which are beautifully attested to here. For example, this artefact was made anywhere between the fourth and first millennium B.C. One can see traces of Bronze Age culture here, from the moment the man started to use this metal here, in Western Siberia, through the beginning of the early Iron Age and the Middle Ages. This information is very interesting and presents a broad picture of the development of different cultures in this area through the centuries.
Like my colleagues in Dagestan, we employ students here as well as research fellows. We have students from Novosibirsk University, Novosibirsk Educational University and Kemerovo State University interning here. I believe this will help these students become really good academics - historians or archaeologists - who will study these issues in the future.
I think work will continue on this site for several more seasons because its archaeological value is very high.
Vladimir Putin: How many people are working here?
Vyacheslav Molodin: Yesterday we held two workshops here that involve 60 people, and today there will be 20 working at the site. We expect more students to attend archaeological workshops within the next two days.
Vladimir Putin: These students are interns? Do you pay them anything, or do they work for free?
Vyacheslav Molodin: It depends. We certainly pay postgraduates and senior students, and we give them something for food. As my colleague said, universities pay internship allowances to such students.
Vladimir Putin: What's this season's budget?
Vyacheslav Molodin: It's a bit over 500,000 roubles. Not a bad budget.
Vladimir Putin: I see.
Vyacheslav Molodin: We receive money from different sources, including the government, academic programmes and Academy of Sciences programmes, mainly grants from the Russian Foundation for Humanities and the Russian Foundation for Basic Research, in addition to other sources. We are also working with the German Archaeological Institute, whose fellows provide us some financial support every year they come here.
Vladimir Putin: I see. Thank you very much. Let's move on to Central Russia, to the ancient village in [the historical region of] Opolye in the Suzdal area. Opolye encompasses parts of the Vladimir and Ivanovo Regions. Mr Shpolyansky, please.
Sergei Shpolyansky: Good evening, Mr Putin, ladies and gentlemen. We are indeed in Suzdal, in Suzdal Opolye, near the border of the Ivanovo and Vladimir Regions; in the Gavrilovo-Posadsky District of the Ivanovo Region, in the very centre of ancient Suzdal Opolye. This is a very interesting, very small area located outside the Russian Chernozem belt, and it has now been completely deforested. It is primarily known for being an agricultural centre and breadbasket for our country for the last millennium. From the 12th century on, during the Muscovite and Russian eras, since the foundation of the unified Russian state, Opolye's human and agricultural resources have been major resources for, say, the growth and development of Russian statehood.
The rural settlements of Opolye are less spectacular than the wonderful historical buildings my predecessors and colleagues have shown us, but they are unique in their own right. If we can show the excavations, you can see the Bolshoye Davydovskoye-2 site, which we are currently working on. This is our third season at this site, and we've excavated about a thousand metres. We have uncovered several unique findings, which indicate that the Slavs began to settle in Opolye quite early on and demonstrate the remarkable developments in medieval Russian culture in the 11th and 12th centuries.
Please, show us the second area.
Here you can see in the excavation pit that the layers of Medieval Russian settlement are relatively recent. You could almost say that the discoveries I will show you in a bit are almost lying in the tillage, on the surface, right under your feet. And they are no less significant and interesting than the artefacts found in large medieval Russian urban centres such as Novgorod and Vladimir, for instance.
As is the case with my predecessors, we have several students working here on the Institute of Archaeology's Suzdal expedition, which cooperates with the State Historical Museum and Ivanovo State University. We have about 80 students from Ivanovo University, the Moscow State Pedagogical University and the State University of the Social Sciences.
And as is also the case with my colleagues, we have first-year students here as well as other students, who have come to us for several years in a row: they find working with us very interesting.
Naturally, archaeology and archaeological excavations are a crucial pedagogical tool for developing young people's notions about the history of our country.
Returning to those finds that are worthy of note here, specifically, the settlements: I would like to show you some of them. Before me on the table we have artifacts that belonged to our noblemen. There are arms such as the military pick and mace, arrowheads and equestrian equipment (spurs and remnants of a stirrup).
Unlike in Novgorod, however, there are no birch-bark manuscripts. But we found some evidence of literacy among the Suzdal locals. There are beautiful styli for writing and book clasps, which supports the assumption that the majority of people in Suzdal settlements and in Suzdal itself were literate.
As well as in cities (and even more often, maybe), we find evidence of faith in ancient Russia such as pectoral crosses, reliquaries and encolpia. They are here before us.
I shouldn't take up any more of your time so let me conclude by saying the following: of course, the display value, to put it in those terms, of the Suzdal settlements, like those of many other ancient Russian settlements, do not seem as grand and impressive as those of the sites have been, or will be, discussed. However, this is a very important source of historical and archaeological information about the earliest periods in the history of our state. The Suzdal region was the place our country originated and developed from. Thank you very much.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you. As I remember, at a certain point Suzdal was contending with both Kiev and Veliky Novgorod where we are now.
Sergei Shpolyansky: Exactly. Moreover, according to both information gleaned from the Suzdal Opolye and historical records, Novgorod was to some extent dependent on the Suzdal region and received bread supplies from here. It was Suzdal's fields of grain that allowed Novgorod to develop and flourish.
Speaking of which, let me congratulate our colleagues from Novgorod on finding the thousandth birch-bark manuscript this year. I know that by now more have been found but finding the thousandth birch-bark was a great achievement!
Vladimir Putin: Mr Shpolyansky, was it at your site that the settlement borders were located without actual excavation?
Sergei Shpolyansky: Yes, that's correct. We were able to apply a quite remarkable method thanks to our German colleagues from the University of Kiel. Somebody has already mentioned geophysics here. These scientists are geophysicists. With their help and using magnetic exploration, we have already mapped huge areas, nearly 60 hectares. And this method is precise so we can measure the area of the settlements without any excavation. And I must say they are huge.
An average settlement in the Opolye covers around 3-4 hectares, some are even larger. By comparison, the neighbouring woodlands were mostly inhabited by small settlements, while here we see evidence of this area, the Opolye, being quite densely populated in ancient times. Our research made us almost entirely certain of this.
Vladimir Putin: I saw that on the picture shows a road nearby, is that right? And you yourself spoke about the effect of ploughing the soil. Does it cause serious damage?
Sergei Shpolyansky: Of course, it damages the settlement sites. But we understand very well that land development cannot be stopped. Furthermore, we know that the upper 30-40 cm of the layer of occupation has been subject to development for a very long time. There is a high density of medieval artefacts in this layer and we should bear this in mind when discussing the preservation and conservation of similar historical sites.
Vladimir Putin: What is your relationship with the local, municipal and regional authorities like?
Sergei Shpolyansky: You know, we are on very good terms. It is thanks to support from the local administration that we are in this favourable position now. We have enlisted the help of the Gavrilo-Posadsky district authorities and those in our city of Yershov, which have been supporting us for a very long time now. So in that sense everything is good.
Vladimir Putin: Excellent. I hope I'm not mistaken but wasn't it at your site that the evidence of a Finnish presence was discovered underneath the ancient Slav layer of occupation?
Sergei Shpolyansky: You are not at all mistaken. I didn't mention this project because it wasn't something we worked on this year. But it is a separate, highly interesting, subject. For the Opolye it is a very old burial ground dating back to the third or fourth century. There are 18 burial sites with abundant contents that will allow us to open a new page in the Opolye's history. It is the first archaeological site of this kind that has been found in the area in the last 150 years. And it was found by our expedition.
Vladimir Putin: Does that mean that those tribes were living there some 700-800 years before the Slavs arrived?
Sergei Shpolyansky: Exactly. But we are only just beginning to gain an understanding of this page of the history of this area. We are only starting to study it and get the feeling of it.
Vladimir Putin: Yes, how intriguing and how very interesting. We are used to thinking that the Finno-Ugric and Slavic peoples lived in concord with each other near Lake Ladoga and in Staraya Ladoga. But as it turns out, the Finno-Ugric peoples lived in this area too for a very long time and very long ago. It is very intriguing.
Thank you very much.
Now I suggest we listen to Vladimir Kuznetsov who is working on the Taman Peninsula. Mr Kuznetsov, please tell us about the excavation of the city of Phanagoria. It looks so beautiful.
Vladimir Kuznetsov: Good afternoon, it's very hot here.
Vladimir Putin: Here too.
Vladimir Kuznetsov: We are staying in the Taman Peninsula. It is common knowledge that many ancient monuments are located in this part of the Krasnodar Territory.
Russia ranks among those states that are part of ancient civilisation and culture. Phanagoria, the largest ancient Greek city in what is currently the territory of Russia, is the gem of the region. The city which was founded circa 540 BC and is therefore 2,550 years old. Consequently, it ranks among the oldest cities in Russia. It survived for nearly 15 centuries and ceased to exist in the ninth century AD. Indeed, the city was extremely large, and even huge, by ancient standards, with a territory of 1km by 600m and covering an area of over 60 hectares. It has a very large necropolis covering several hundred hectares.
The city has en extremely long and complicated history, existing as an ancient city for nearly 1,000 years. The city maintained very close and multi-faceted political, economic and other ties with the entire Mediterranean region and was an inalienable part of the ancient Mediterranean civilisation. It was a major provincial centre of the Khazar Khanate in the Early Middle Ages and until the ninth century AD.
An extremely early Christian community was established here even before Christianity spread onto what would later become Russia. This huge city differs from others there is not a single modern building on it, making it possible to implement any kind of scientific and other projects on its territory. Happily, the city is located between two towns and has a completely pristine landscape with clearly defined specific features.
The Institute of Archaeology and an expedition of the Russian Academy of Sciences' Institute of Archaeology are conducting excavation work in Phanagoria. This work involves specialists from the most diverse disciplines, including archaeologists, historians, microbiologists and chemists.
We are carrying out a great deal of analysis on the artefacts we unearth, and are also analysing soil samples in an effort to reconstruct the paleoecology of the region.
The expedition is conducting significant work at several excavation sites. One site measuring almost 2,500 square metres is located right behind me. This is so large because the Phanagorian cultural layer measures seven metres thick.
In total the cultural-layer is estimated at a staggering 2.5 million cubic metres filled with historical and archaeological artefacts.
Apart from this excavation site, we have significant work underway at the necropolis and in the part of the city that was flooded by the sea. We are conducting underwater excavation work there.
Major discoveries have been made in the past few years. Many of them are quite unique. I would like to mention the following discovery by way of example.
We have recently discovered an extremely rare coin collection. As is known, the first coins were minted in the middle of the sixth century BC. Our treasure chest dates back to the late sixth century BC and is therefore the only and most ancient coin collection in Russia.
A very interesting find was made several years ago during our underwater excavation work. We discovered an unusual structure, called a Ryazh in Russian. This well-preserved wooden box filled with pieces of stone served as part of the foundations for some unidentified port facilities. Most importantly, it was filled with stones found during construction work on the city. Its contents include ancient Greek inscriptions, fragments of statues, statue pedestals, pretty architectural details and lots more. These finds are quite interesting and diverse.
Incidentally, similar structures were used to build fortifications for the defence of St Petersburg during the reign of Peter the Great and later. They too resemble such stone-filled wooden boxes. Our finds are quite numerous because we are dealing with an ancient civilisation. Each year, we unearth thousands, and even tens of thousands, of artefacts, including hundreds of individual finds. I think we ought to build a museum here because this monument, Russia's largest, requires attention. Moreover, an archaeological museums should be built here. Otherwise a fraction of all the finds we make here can be displayed at a small museum nearby, 25 km away. The creation of a state historical reserve is our second problem.
A monument such as Phanagoria should be handled with great care because this is truly an extremely rich archaeological site. The creation of an historical reserve would make it possible to preserve this heritage because it is no exaggeration to say that this settlement is a national treasure. Thank you very much.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you. Mr Kuznetsov, wasn't Phanagoria the capital of an ancient Greek state at some point?
Vladimir Kuznetsov: Phanagoria was the second, one of the Bosporus State's two capitals, the most ancient state on Russian territory. Consequently, it is very large and very rich.
Moreover, few people know that Bulgar tribes had lived here, before crossing the Danube River. In fact, Phanagoria is the first capital of the Bulgarian state. Consequently, everyone in Bulgaria knows and cherishes Phanagoria.
Vladimir Putin: How did archaeologists establish through excavations that Phanagoria was swept by an insurrection, and that its king was killed in a fire? How could you do that by excavation work?
Vladimir Kuznetsov: You know, that was, of course, a fantastic find. Last year, Archaeology Magazine, a publication of the Archaeological Institute of America, listed it among the ten most important archaeological discoveries worldwide. Indeed, this is an extremely curious story. The ruins of an extremely interesting building which was destroyed by a fire are located behind me. Numerous coins made it possible to date its destruction somewhere to about 61-70 BC.
Considering the fact that this is the Acropolis, the city's citadel, we concluded that we can use the work of an ancient author who had described an insurrection in Phanagoria against King Mithridates VI of Pontus, who had fought Rome all his life, to corroborate our theory. The author writes that the people of Phanagoria had staged an insurrection in 63 BC, covered the citadel with wood and set it on fire. Our underwater research revealed that the King's children and a garrison all lived inside the citadel, his wife lived there too. We found a gravestone referring to her as the wife of Mithridates VI. It appears that she was killed during the insurrection. These written sources seem to confirm our interpretation of the archaeological materials as correct, while the latter confirm the correctness of the written narrative. This seldom happens in archaeology.
Vladimir Putin: Do you mean both aspects agree?
Vladimir Kuznetsov: Yes, this does not happen very often. This is truly a fantastic and very rare coincidence.
Vladimir Putin: How do you work underwater? Who helps you with this? To the best of my knowledge, the ancient city extends 240 metres into the sea.
Vladimir Kuznetsov: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: Who helps you organise underwater work?
Vladimir Kuznetsov: We have established a special underwater team comprising divers from Moscow and Tver. Professional divers from Novorossiisk were also involved in its work. The team comprises licensed professionals working to health and safety requirements.
Vladimir Putin: Are they both archaeologists and divers?
Vladimir Kuznetsov: We have a professional archaeologist who has a diving license. He is in charge of all the underwater work, and everyone works under his guidance. Some of them have already become archaeologists.
Vladimir Putin: I see. But the soldiers who did the first excavations here in the 19th century by digging trenches were also considered archaeologists, but I understand they did a lot of damage. Why do I ask? I understand that you are now doing underwater work, and I want to make sure that your people are well trained.
Vladimir Kuznetsov: Absolutely. Also, the divers mostly work with soil-collectors. All they have to do is pump out sand, and the artefacts automatically fall into a special receiving unit. The archaeologist handles everything after that.
Vladimir Putin: Okay. Mr Kuznetsov, we will definitely look into the question that you have raised regarding the construction of the museum and the establishment of a protected reserve. What land will be part of the reserve? How much land are we talking about?
Vladimir Kuznetsov: This is a unique place in the sense that it is absolutely untouched. The city has an area of about 60 hectares and the necropolis has an area of about 300 hectares. I was talking about a reserve that would cover both, so about four kilometres.
Vladimir Putin: I see. So there is no economic activity nearby, is there?
Vladimir Kuznetsov: Currently no, but the land belongs to two agricultural companies.
Vladimir Putin: I see.
Vladimir Kuznetsov: And in theory, they could do whatever they wanted.
Vladimir Putin: Okay, Mr Kuznetsov. We will definitely look into this issue and talk with the local authorities. The Ministry of Culture will address this issue, together with the Academy of Sciences, of course. We'll think about how to proceed.
Phanagoria fought war after war, and suffered all sorts of bloody internal conflicts. Eventually the city was destroyed, and since then nobody has lived there and nothing has been built, to the best of my knowledge.
This is a tragic history, on the one hand. On the other, it is this tragic history that helps archaeologists today. As for the economic activity, it will be necessary to talk with these companies that own the land. Everything must be resolved in a civilised way. We always try to resolve things in a civilised way. Thank you very much, Mr Kuznetsov.
Let's move on to Bashkortostan, and hear from Mr Zhitenyov, who works in the Kapova Caves, please go ahead.
Vladislav Zhitenyov: Good afternoon, Mr Zhitenyov.
We are now in a unique place: the Kapova Caves, which are very well known not only to archaeologists, but also ethnographers. This is a very important site in Bashkir folklore.
In 1959, staff at the Shulgan-Tash Reserve, where we are now, discovered these Paleolithic paintings. This is the Ice Age, and the nearest paintings from the same period are four thousand kilometres away, in France and Spain. We are faced with the very complicated scientific and practical task of preserving them. Needless to say, archaeologists cannot do this alone, and we have been working with geologists, hydrologists and microbiologists for many years, especially since a huge crowd of tourists visited the caves some five years ago and contaminated them to such an extent that the drawings are now disappearing. We are not the only ones faced with this problem: our French colleagues have visited us to discuss similar issues. For the time being we are still in the decision-making process.
One more problem is the economic activities that are going on in the area. The caves are underground, and a part of the reserve, and therefore a part of the caves, is located in areas where there is natural resource development. Therefore, there is logging and road-construction, which causes enormous microbiological and hydrological problems. This is the issue that we are currently trying to resolve. The reserve supports us, and that's great. But the number of tourists increases every year, and we don't yet know how to save these paintings. In other words, excavations are not even our main task. Therefore, we cannot even show you our small excavation sites, which are incomparable with what our colleagues have shown us. It is dark and cold there; we work for short shifts. I simply cannot ask students to spend a long time lying on the wet ground.
But our main aim is to preserve these paintings. We've just come from the Ignatyev Cave, where the situation is much worse because there is no protected reserve at all, which means a steady stream of tourists and that the paintings have practically been destroyed. The authorities of the Chelyabinsk Region are trying to do something about this, but we will lose these drawings in a couple of years. Outside Western Europe such drawings have been only found in two caves, both in Russia.
Just look at these paintings! These are the most ancient drawings, which were discovered by the graduates of our university.
Vladimir Putin: They are colourful, aren't they?
Vladislav Zhitenyov: They are made with red paint, and our research has helped conservators determine the composition of the paint. It is very different from what was used in Western Europe. Before we analysed the paint, we expected everything to be the same as in Western Europe, but everything turned out to be different. This is a unique Urals culture, a unique Urals recipe that was passed down for many, many generations. Not just through the Stone Age, but much longer than that, up to the Bronze Age.
Vladimir Putin: What is the area of these caves? How long are they?
Vladislav Zhitenyov: Speleologists believe that the total length of all passages in the caves is about 1.5 or two kilometres.
Vladimir Putin: These caves are some of the longest in Europe, aren't they?
Vladislav Zhitenyov: Yes, they are some of the longest, and they have a very complex structure. We now have four levels: our speleologist friends have just discovered a new level. And the lowest level is a river, which you can see now. Therefore, all the logging and road-construction affects the hydrological environment, and if water comes into the caves, then the paintings will simply be washed away. This is already an issue and we are trying to do something about it, but, regrettably, we are very short of money. I even feel ashamed because I have no money to buy food for the students.
Vladimir Putin: Do the students eat?
Vladislav Zhitenyov: (laughing) If they are lucky they get a bite.
Vladimir Putin: (laughing) Okay about the food issue... I think we'll just fix this issue. We'll resolve it with additional grants. You are from Moscow University, aren't you?
Vladislav Zhitenyov: Yes, I'm with the department of archaeology at Moscow University.
Vladimir Putin: I'll have to figure out what channels to put the funding through in your case, as well as for the team in Derbent and some other groups. We'll figure out the details: not now during the video conference, but later on. We'll get the necessary materials and documents from you and allocate additional grants. I won't discuss the numbers now. We have to look into your requirements, the scale of your work and the number of employees.
But the issue that immediately caught my attention, to which I'd like to draw your attention, is this: the caves are large and intricate. How many students do you have working there?
Vladislav Zhitenyov: Between 10 to 40 students, depending on what we are working on. We cannot take more, because this is an alpine forest, and it is dangerous to have lots of people here at once.
Vladimir Putin: That is exactly what I wanted to bring up. I hope that all safety issues have been resolved.
Vladimir Zhitenyov: Absolutely. We receive substantial support from the reserve and are very grateful to its staff.
Vladimir Putin: Okay.
Vladislav Zhitenyov: And of course, we have students who not only regularly take part in our Russian expeditions, but sometimes manage to go abroad. It is our dream to establish a Russian Archaeological Institute in Jerusalem, together with the Academy of Sciences. This is very important because this city is one of the centres of world civilisation. And this would be invaluable for our students, and probably for our staff as well.
Vladimir Putin: Okay. Thank you, Mr Zhitenyov, for your account. We will definitely look into the issue of making the entire caves part of the reserve in order to help preserve the rock paintings. It will also be necessary to think about arranging it so that tourists can visit the site, but in a civilised manner, so that they can see these unique drawings without damaging them.
Vladislav Zhitenyov: Yes, this is one of our goals.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you. I'd like to thank all our colleagues in Opolye, Dagestan, the Tartas-1 burial grounds, Phanagoria and the Kapova Caves for the interesting accounts of their work. I'm sure that your colleagues in Novgorod have also found it interesting to hear about your achievements and how you have organised your work. I'm sure many people in Russia would find this interesting as well.
Once again we have been convinced that Russia is a very wealthy country, and that our greatest wealth lies in our cultural diversity, as I said at the beginning. And so it is very important that we understand your work, that we begin to understand the problems and trials of our ancestors, what our country went through as it took shape... the difficulties they encountered and how they overcame them. This allows us to say with confidence that we will overcome the problems we face today. And if we achieve success, it won't go to our heads or prevent our further progress. Everybody knows this, but I'll say it anyway: we can only be sure that we are building the right future if we know the past.
Thank you very much for your work. As for material support, the issue of federal status and the status of the reserve protecting some of these sites, we'll definitely look into these issues.
Thank you very much once again.
Please accept my congratulations on today's holiday.
